Chef Vikram Vij,
Toronto: October 2006,
Gremolata Number 94.

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I had half an hour allotted with Vancouver's Vikram Vij, half of the partnership behind the world renown Indian restaurant Vij's, but somehow it stretched to nearly two hours. So long that we've split the interview into two parts, this being the first.

Vij was in town promoting the book he wrote with his wife and fellow chef Meeru Dhalwala, Vij's: Elegant & Inspired Indian Cuisine. Like the famous restaurant the book has garnered high praise from all over the English-speaking food world from Patricia Wells to Jamie Oliver to Toronto's own Bonnie Stern. A quick flip through book shows why. Dhalwala have managed to balance between the overly intricate and simple enough a home cook could do spectrum, and innovate while at the same time explaining the traditions and sensibilities behind each dish.

This interview is broken up into two parts, published in Gremolata 94 and 95, respectively.

Part I:

Gremolata: So, tell us about the book.

Vikram Vij: This book is meant to be used. This is a really important to me. Here let me show you [Vij opens the book and lays it on the table, where it stays open at the same page]. See? we made sure it had a spine. If you open the book and flip to a recipe, then it stays open. And don’t worry if you get grease on it or get it dirty. This was very important too me, that it’s something useful.

G: So you want people to cook form these recipes. This isn’t a show piece.

VV: No! It was not meant to be a showpiece. It’s a journey of how Vij’s started, where it is today and what’s transpired in those ten years in between: the recipes, the food and the accolades that people have given us over the years. But it’s not a coffee table book. It’s meant to be put on your counter and stay there!

It’s also a read.

G: Yes, that’s one of the things I like about it. There are lots of stories and explanations of the dishes.

VV: Take Nigel Slater’s Kitchen Diaries, for example. When you read him and he says he got fresh potatoes form this, place and scallions form another. Well, it actually makes you feel that in London in December with that cold bloody weather and you actually went out and bought all this stuff and ready to cook it. It's so well written. Well, we're trying to do that too. Take this recipe for short ribs, for example. [Vij points to "Beef Short Ribs in Cinnamon and Red Wine Curry".] I hope you'll feel that way, that you'll say, hmm I'd like to try this and go and buy the ingredients.

Ingredients, especially spices, are very much a part of our experience. And my wife, Meeru (who has done most of the writing here) has done all the hard work She explains each of the ingredients. So, anyone who's interested, who wants to broaden their horizons can read about the cinnamon in the recipe. Why we use it and so on.

G: So, you're trying to encourage amateurs like me to go looking for ingredients and telling us what to look for?

VV: Yeah. It's been my goal to bring awareness to my cuisine and culture of the country that I come from. I want to showcase that. The French have done a fantastic job of showcasing their cuisine. The Italians have done a fantastic job. The Californians have done a fantastic job. And I think the Indians have to take it to that level.

G: When you first arrived in Canada, how did you find Indian cuisine represented? Were you disappointed?

VV: I'll tell you what: as someone who had lived in Europe for a long time, I was just so proud to see that there were Indians in this country who weren't just selling
newspapers the way they do in Austria and Germany. Most of the immigrants sell newspapers or have little shops and stuff. But here I felt that we had been accepted and we weren't just at the bottom of the totem pole, maybe we were getting a little higher. I was just purely happy. And then to have one then two or three restaurants in a (by world standards) small city like Vancouver was a big deal. And I thought, wow, here there are Indian restaurants. So I felt proud that Indians were able to open restaurants, I felt proud that the community was able to do it.

Then, after a little while, I thought, OK: great that you've done it, but we need to take this to a different level. If we want this white guy to come for a date in our restaurant and not just because he went to an ashram in 1968, then we need to take it to a different level. So the first part of my journey, from when I first came here was me thinking hmmm, how am I going to do this?

You know, I never had a 'concept'. People are always saying to me, 'What a great concept!" But I never had one. All I wanted to do was to have a good restaurant. Serve delicious food, fresh greens, nice potatoes, a glass of wine. I didn't go with a 'modern Indian concept'.

G: And how did go when you opened? I know you've been very successful, but at first were people open to a higher level of Indian cuisine?

VV: I did have a lot of resistance, because most of the Indian restaurants did the same style. If you took a menu from one Indian restaurant, you could take it to another and order all of the same things. So people would walk into my restaurant and say, "where's the butter chicken?" Or, "where's the Tikka Massalla and Tandoori Chicken?" But because I was on the floor and I could look into the peoples' eyes and say, "Guys, just trust me. If you don't like the food, I'll pay for it." And when the food came out and they tasted it, they loved it. But you know, it really wasn’t their fault, it was our fault. As Indians we hadn't shown anyone any thing different. We hadn't pushed the limit and shown that this is not all there is to Indian food.

I still have to do it sometimes, hold peoples hand and say "trust me." And they may not like it. They may not like the flavours or spices, but at least they'll know what we're doing and that we're trying our best.

I want to also say that we’re not a fusion restaurant. We are an Indian restaurant. The food is cooked for Indians by Indians. It's all Indian spices that we use.

G: Your restaurant is quite famous in Vancouver, but in Toronto we often end up reading about what happens there, or in Montréal, in American newspapers and magazines. What are your thoughts on this insularity?

VV: Well, if you're a person it's hard to do good things if you are not happy. And for our cities, Vancouver, Montréal and Toronto, we need to bridge these gaps but not worry too much. Better we work on each of our happiness's. This is still a young country. Our wine regions, our growing regions are so young compared to the rest of the world. It's going to take us some time to build it up. But believe you me, everyone in Vancouver, and I think a good deal of Torontonians, knows good food and enjoys good food. People have good taste, and we do have a lot of Torontonians who come to Vij's.

Look, it's only been ten years since we've really been taking wine, cheese and all that stuff seriously. And if you look around, at all the young chefs here and in Montréal and Vancouver, we're all in our 40s. It's not an old guard sitting around here. We've got new blood. So, we need to talk to one another, broaden our horizons. And that's great. When I meet Marc Thuet, for example, there's an instant camaraderie. And there's enough to go around, pie-wise. We don't need to become closed minded.

G: But Vancouver really seems to have exploded as a culinary centre. In the typical Canadian measure of success, American press coverage, the whole region from Vancouver Island to the Okanagan being singled out as a major gastronomic destination. What's going on?

VV: We're pushing the limits, and we've been pounding away at the same message: local, local, local. SO now the media are coming along and seeing that these things really do taste different and they're good. I mean, why would you fly a lobster in from the Atlantic when we have all this crab. Things like that. It's the ingredients.

G: Do you have any favourite dishes from the book. Or ones that really stand out?

VV: Well it's too bad my wife isn't sitting here and you were talking to her, because I think she would tell you that one of her favourite recipes would be the Eggplant
and Papaya Curry with Black Chickpeas. It starts as a very traditional treatment of the eggplant, almost babaganoush style, but she uses papaya as she grew up in the States she knew her friends didn't like the strong, strong flavour that just the eggplant can have so she added the sweet papaya to it. And it's very important for her that people have fibre in their diet, so she put black chick peas in it too! [Smiles.] She would be very proud of that one.

G: Well you need fibre, when you're planning a meal!

VV: Right, right. For me, my favourite might be the Beef Short Ribs, and then the other one is a bouillabaisse kind of a thing that we make: Sturgeon, Mussels and Baby Carrot in Tomato, Light Cream Curry. We're using local mussels, and a local fish. In the book it's Sturgeon, right now in the restaurant we've been using halibut. You can change it around. Sturgeon is great, though. And even though we hear about all the trouble with caviar, farmed Sturgeon is highly sustainable. But if you can't find it, use any halibut or another white fish.

PART II

Gremolata: You're a properly trained and accredited sommelier and you have a small but interesting wine list, which is not all Riesling! How does one drink wine with Indian food?

VV: I enjoy wine with my meals. Always have and always will. So, when I opened the restaurant up I knew the food was going to be the focus, but I wanted to bridge the gap: in North America, people do enjoy a glass of wine. So why not relax and say: here are five white and here are five reds.

G: I was on your site [vijs.ca] and saw that. It's not a long list.

VV: No. It's all hand picked. Most of them from small producers, often from BC. Most are only available at one or two other restaurants. Food is the focus, but the wine is there to enhance your meal. So if you love chai, in my restaurant, you can drink only chai. or water, as most Indians drink with meals. But I love a nice glass of wine, so if you want one or a nice bottle of wine, then here you go.

They're all the same price, too: $35. So you choose based on what you like, not based on price. Look: the traditional drink with Indian food is water because it is neutral. There's no sommelier in the world that's going to convince me that 1965 Silver Oak Cab or Harlan Estate ought to go with this Indian dish or another. You can't really match, so why worry about it? You take a sip of your wine and it should
taste good. then, you take a bit of the food and it should taste good.

G: But there must be some guide?

VV: OK, sure. I always say, drink young refreshing whites. Drink grapes (or varietals) that have good acidity. And Riesling always has good acidity to it. Viogner often has good acidity to it. Pinot blancs. Don't drink oaky Chardonnay. It's going to
clash with the heat. A high heavy oaked Chardonnay is going to feel hot on your palate. At the same time, for red, don't try and drink super tannic wines. So drink young, the Shirazes, Mourvedres, Grenaches, drink a Pinot Noir rose. Fruit forward and refreshing. The tannic stuff will accentuate the heat and you'll feel it.

G: DO you have a problem with heat? Can customers handle it?

VV: What do you mean?

G: well, does the kitchen have to adjust to the diners' tastes?

VV: It's not a problem, or it shouldn't be. If you find it too spicy there's raita to cool it down. If it's not spicy enough, then here's some extra chillies to liven it up. Indian food is always like that. when you eat as a family you put these condiments in the middle and you can add whatever you want. Turn it down or turn it up.

Indian people always eat in the family and every one has a different palate. There's not just two of you eating, there's ten!

G: So it's not an insult to the kitchen to say, "I'd like a few more chillies"?

VV: Not at all. But you should taste what you get first. We don’t do it in the kitchen but we'll give you a little extra to put on. It's like asking for extra salt or something. It's just respect. Respect for the chef and the house.

G: But do people ask for this sort of thing?

VV: Yes, sometimes. Vegetables on the side. Sometimes people ask for vegetables on the side and I have to explain that we don't do that. That Indians don't eat that
way. There is a vegetable curry. Or people ask for the cheese to be taken out or whatever. The only thing is a serious allergy. I absolutely respect that. But otherwise let the chef do what the does best.

Visit Vijs.ca to learn more.

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